Episode 008 - Lubomila Jordanova
When we feel the importance of true passion in the fight against climate crisis
Lubomila Jordanova (b. 1989) is a Bulgarian-born founder and Berlin-based CEO of a business carbon accounting, decarbonization and ESG reporting platform Plan A. She has been awarded multiple industry awards such as Forbes 30 under 30, Top 50 Women Entrepreneurs of Germany and MIT Tech Review Under 35 Innovator. Lubomila wants to help companies reducing negative impacts on our planet.
EPISODE SUMMARY
Lubomila reflects on how it feels to receive 15 million € financing at an early age, what kind of hesitation is involved as a young leader, the fight against the climate crisis and what makes Barack Obama perfect.
Recorded at
Plan A headquarters in Berlin, Germany, on a scenic September Monday afternoon.
“If you start seeing yourself as part of the bigger picture, be at as entity, as a business, be it as an individual, you all of a sudden start benefiting from the energy of others.”
KEYWORDS & TRANSCRIPTION
Polution , success , perfection , climate change , collaborative , imperfection , finding , fundraising , businesses , nature , vulnerability , leader , sports , reality , science , human , spend , plan a, moment
SPEAKERS
Lubomila Jordanova & Risto Kuulasmaa
Lubomila Jordanova 00:00
If you start seeing yourself as part of the bigger picture, be it as an entity as a business, be it as an individual, you all of a sudden start benefiting from the energy of others
Risto Kuulasmaa 00:21
Lubomila Jordanova is the co-founder and CEO of Plan A.
Risto Kuulasmaa 00:26
Software provider offering solutions for businesses to reduce their emissions and improve and report on their ESG performance.
Risto Kuulasmaa 00:36
Originally from Bulgaria Lubomila has won multiple awards under her belt, such as Forbes 30 under 30, Obama Europe Leader and MIT innovator under 35.
Risto Kuulasmaa 00:49
In this episode, we hear how Lubomila has evolved to manage her well being and what role vulnerability plays in her leadership.
Risto Kuulasmaa 00:58
Welcome onboard. This is Talks of Imperfection.
Lubomila Jordanova 01:10
Ever since I was a child, I've always been observing nature and seeing how phenomenal painter and designer she is.
Lubomila Jordanova 01:21
And I think the best example for me personally has always been animals all together. When you start studying animals, you see quite quickly that they live in perfect equilibrium with the ecosystem, be it the way they eat, be it the way they dressed with their fur and patterns.
Lubomila Jordanova 01:42
And the only reflection to perfection that I found in my life has really been that. Finding my angle to just analyse how incredible this ecosystem in retreat is and how easy flowing are the processes within it are, unlike some of the processes when it comes to humans.
Risto Kuulasmaa 02:08
Nice. Welcome to Talks of Imperfection.
Lubomila Jordanova 02:11
Thank you for having me.
Risto Kuulasmaa 02:14
Well, let's dive into Plan A.
Risto Kuulasmaa 02:18
You have ramped it up as a CEO together with your team rather fast. Could you walk us through the.. how it all came to this point?
Lubomila Jordanova 02:30
My journey finding Plan A was really one of a lot of serendipity, but also a lot of soul searching I guess.
Lubomila Jordanova 02:40
In 2016, I found myself disengaged with my job that I was having then, I was in a relationship that wasn't particularly positive.
Lubomila Jordanova 02:49
And also Brexit had just happened. So I was looking for a lot of answers on many topics.
Lubomila Jordanova 02:56
And within the same time, I went on a trip to Morocco where instead of surfing, I ended up finding myself on a beach which I had to clean from plastic, which was the beginning of a long journey of learning about climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 03:11
After this trip, I absolutely became obsessed with the topic of climate change, pollution, the impact of people on the planet.
Lubomila Jordanova 03:19
And within one year, I had a bit too much information on the topic and too much concern for where we were headed, and felt the utmost responsibility to take action myself, regardless of the fact that I didn't know quite well, if this was going to be a successful venture or if this was going to be a project that could lead to outcome aligned to the problem that I was trying to solve.
Lubomila Jordanova 03:48
Today, we're a company of over 100 people based across Europe, and we help companies eliminate the negative impact on the planet.
Risto Kuulasmaa 03:57
What it is in practice that you offer for your clients.
Lubomila Jordanova 04:03
We have a software as a service platform that enables businesses to assess their environmental performance to get automatically a prescription on how they can improve. And finally to report on that, and be aligned to the legislation that has been coming up lately.
Risto Kuulasmaa 04:20
And you've been in the front line, raising money that has been rather successful, right?
Lubomila Jordanova 04:29
Yeah, we've been out there for quite a while and I think we've learned about the fundraising process from various angles. 2017 - 2016 was certainly not a time when fundraising for a climate tech startup by a single founder that was female was a common set up and that definitely created a lot of friction for the first two years of the company.
Lubomila Jordanova 04:55
I didn't pay myself a salary for that time and also didn't have a lot to offer to people that were working with us, we had quite a lot of volunteers, but not necessarily a lot of full time employees, because my savings were what we were living off.
Lubomila Jordanova 05:11
And later down the line two years ago, we went into seed round and then series A and also late on more, which was possible because the market allowed itself for the last few years to learn a little bit more about climate change, about sustainability, about the power that technology is going to play in addressing that.
Lubomila Jordanova 05:36
And today, certainly, the reality looks a lot different for anyone that is finding a company in comparison to where we kicked it off.
Risto Kuulasmaa 05:45
That's an interesting personal journey as well for you as a founder and the CEO. After raising $50 million, how did you build your own emotional and psychological capacity to hold more?
Lubomila Jordanova 06:05
The challenges in the beginning of the planet journey definitely created a lot of resilience in me and even more commitment to the cause that we were working on, because it felt so helpless for so many.
Lubomila Jordanova 06:18
And our resilience was what was needed in order for the problem to be addressed, given no one else was addressing it.
Lubomila Jordanova 06:25
Today, we're big community, there's so many different stakeholders taking action, and it feels a lot more of a reality where there's reckoning for the size and the scale and the magnitude of the problem.
Lubomila Jordanova 06:38
When this started, for me, the biggest challenge was really to wrap my head around, first of all the theoretical, the scientific side of the story, but then also to learn to manage my emotions about how I felt about all the facts that I was gathering, being so deeply connected to so much human trauma, and also so much devastation on biodiversity ecosystem level, you kind of end up developing a lot of sadness, a lot of feelings of anxiety.
Lubomila Jordanova 07:08
And that was probably the most important step that I took for myself in the first few years. It took up until last year, to be able to fully be capable of detaching myself from how I felt about the problem that we're solving, and really being able to act on it within the day to day,
Risto Kuulasmaa 07:25
Can you describe it bit more in details, what was the the kind of despair and those negative emotions you were feeling back in that day.
Lubomila Jordanova 07:38
In 2016, I found myself in front of a lot of scientific papers, a lot of documentaries, a lot of articles, books, and any kind of format of content that would equip me with enough knowledge to build the big picture on what problem we were trying to solve.
Lubomila Jordanova 07:55
And it became quite evident that there's three key outcomes that became the hypothesis behind plenty.
Lubomila Jordanova 08:03
The first one was that businesses had the biggest part to play in addressing climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 08:08
The second was that this was a collaborative effort, it was never going to be the act of one stakeholder for this big problem to be addressed.
Lubomila Jordanova 08:18
And then the final and probably most fundamental was that science needed to be at the core of every decision making that is being made for addressing climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 08:28
To get to this point, I had to gather a lot of different sorts of information accounts of how it is on the ground for people that are coming from indigenous communities, accounts for how scientists have been talking about this for decades.
Lubomila Jordanova 08:44
And when you pile up all of this information, you end up with a lot of human suffering that is really clearly defined written about, you also see a lot of species going extinct, which might not be in the same way described, but you can only imagine what it means for an ecosystem when key elements of it start dying.
Lubomila Jordanova 09:05
I'm a compassionate person. I'm someone that is sensitive and deeply connected to the emotions and what this meant that while going through this information, I was really suffering a lot. But what kept me going the whole time was that I was not the one suffering today.
Lubomila Jordanova 09:24
And I had a responsibility by knowing to take an action so that hopefully suffering stops or at least is reduced to the minimum.
Risto Kuulasmaa 09:34
I guess that come takes you to drawing lines as well. How was it for you?
Lubomila Jordanova 09:41
I'm someone that is quite strict with themselves and that is been translated in my day to day with the routines that I have for doing sports with how I eat, how I sleep.
Lubomila Jordanova 09:52
I'm not fanatic about any of these things, but I make sure that I get what my body, my mind needs in the particular moment. With this in mind, I've been able to really set boundaries between me and some of the emotional elements associated to my work, and really be focused on where we're headed rather than what is the status quo. Because if you spend too much time on what is happening in the moment, you just drown into all the issues, because unfortunately, reality is not incredibly positive at the moment.
Risto Kuulasmaa 10:27
What's your definition for perfection and imperfection?
Lubomila Jordanova 10:34
Perfection for me is nature, I think there is no flaws that you can find in the way all the different elements or the different species or the different stakeholders within this ecosystem operate on.
Lubomila Jordanova 10:49
There's also a lot of genius in all the design and how these different elements coexist and collaborate and also even get into conflict.
Lubomila Jordanova 11:00
Imperfection on the other side, in my opinion, is the human.
Lubomila Jordanova 11:06
And that doesn't make us a failure, or an element that needs to be eliminated, but rather gives us the chance to trial and error, everything that we go through, to get to the point where we are the closest to perfection, but never perfect.
Risto Kuulasmaa 11:25
And how the human imperfection is happening in your life?
Lubomila Jordanova 11:33
I'm an incredibly clumsy person. So I'm constantly like having little spots of coffee on my shirt, or little kind of steps that go a bit wrong on the street, which makes me jump a little.
Lubomila Jordanova 11:50
That's one thing that has been consistently part of my life and is really constantly repeated to me in my mind that there's no, there's no perfection in being human.
Lubomila Jordanova 12:02
On a more serious level, I guess the human, soul and human as an entity is a constant evolution.
Lubomila Jordanova 12:15
And in my mind, we're always going towards what we see in nature, but we're not the starting point. We're kind of descent moulded and unshaped sculpture that needs a lot of different experiences to be able to get to a point where they can fulfil their mission in complete manner.
Lubomila Jordanova 12:36
But in order for this to happen, you need to accept that the way you feel the way you act, the way you respond to reality is always going to be shaping itself down the line rather than be constant. And that what makes a human imperfect, but also what makes us, I think one of the most exciting and unique, and hopefully hopeful elements on that is evolving.
Lubomila Jordanova 13:08
And that can also bring a lot of, a lot of elements to this evolution that the whole humanity, but also the whole, I would say ecosystem we live in is going through
Risto Kuulasmaa 13:24
And as a leader, how you take care of your own wellbeing?
Lubomila Jordanova 13:29
That's been a battle.
Lubomila Jordanova 13:31
Because I didn't have proper definition for this. In the beginning, I jumped into building my own company at a time when I had four or five years of work experience.
Lubomila Jordanova 13:41
But I was not shaped as a professional to a level where I would be able to have these strict rituals that would be keeping me sane and hopeful and constantly enthused by all the things that I was doing.
Lubomila Jordanova 13:57
I didn't take care of my body for two, three years.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:01
And I can say this with full knowledge that probably many people listening also don't do that because they're constantly intellectually stimulated by their work, by the wish for accomplishment, and by this constant strive to be creating impact.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:18
But two years ago, I really learned that the most important thing I need to focus on is finding balance for myself because this is how I can contribute the best to Plan A, to my team, to the cause that I have.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:31
What I do today is a lot of sports.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:34
I do sports every single day, except maybe one day of the week what sports you're doing.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:40
Today, I went for a run.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:41
Yesterday I did yoga, the day before I was doing an aerobics class.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:46
And last week I was doing ballet climbing, and I tried to diversify a lot because I get quite easily bored and I meditate as well.
Lubomila Jordanova 14:56
And that's something that really has helped me set the scene, for the day. The way a bad day can kick off is when you don't take charge of it at the get go.
Lubomila Jordanova 15:08
And meditation really helps me define what's the mood towards the construct towards, the concept with which I'm kicking things off?
Risto Kuulasmaa 15:17
Who is there a specific school of meditation you're following, or?
Lubomila Jordanova 15:23
I've been testing a lot of things like high frequencies, also listening to a lot of powerful lectures by Sadhguru.
Lubomila Jordanova 15:31
And also a few other thought leaders also have been seeing what Deepak Chopra did with his meditation class.
Lubomila Jordanova 15:42
I've been experimenting a lot. I don't think I'm at the moment defined.
Lubomila Jordanova 15:46
What I definitely always listen to, though, is how my body feels, and what do I feel I need, because sometimes you wake up a bit anxious, sometimes you're a bit stressed. So, you really need to align to that.
Lubomila Jordanova 15:57
And I know my boundaries with these things. So when I feel like I can push, a get on a 20 minute meditation that is quite high intensity, high frequency sounds, when I need just a lot of guidance, I just pick the one that is 10 minutes in, there's someone that doesn't stop speaking so that I keep my mind to the point.
Risto Kuulasmaa 16:19
What about vulnerability? What is your relationship with that, then? Can we see that in your leadership?
Lubomila Jordanova 16:29
Absolutely.
Lubomila Jordanova 16:30
Vulnerability is one of the key components of being found a good leader, any kind of community lead, you don't need a label to be vulnerable.
Lubomila Jordanova 16:42
And you need to use this because I think it's one of the superpowers that humans have.
Lubomila Jordanova 16:49
The main reason why someone does something with you, in a project, in a team is because they are in one way or another connected to your vision, and in in a way connected to your leadership or your capacity to make decisions that would be aligned to what they wish to see.
Lubomila Jordanova 17:12
Vulnerability in the context of climate change, and especially in the context of building Plan A, has been quite crucial, because it has, since day one, allowed for many people to connect to the topic, because they will trust me, we will know what we're doing.
Lubomila Jordanova 17:27
But also, it would allow them the space for, for them themselves to be vulnerable.
Lubomila Jordanova 17:32
On a second level, it has allowed many of the businesses that we work with, to understand that, this is a lot bigger than simply some money moving around and some software being built.
Lubomila Jordanova 17:46
This is really the transformation of a whole system.
Lubomila Jordanova 17:52
And an a whole economic model that is fantastic. But it just need a reboot, it needs additional KPIs, it needs to be taught in a different way. Because otherwise, we stand against the reality of humanity disappearing.
Lubomila Jordanova 18:08
And finally, it has been powerful because it has brought a lot of trust in the reasons why we're doing what we're doing. We have the factual kind of evidence of how we've been focusing on this before, it was cool, because we just started the company in 2016 - 2017.
Lubomila Jordanova 18:29
And we've been doing a lot of also a community engagement, educating people without getting any compensation for that. But down the line now, when people are a bit more awoke to this reality, it has really helped us shape a whole community of green tech companies, but also a lot of industry leaders that are shaping how sustainability looks on a corporate level, and essentially allowing for everyone to feel like they're in this bubble that stands the chance to shape how people think, in the coming years.
Risto Kuulasmaa 19:06
And on a personal level. Do you recall any kind of moments of vulnerability?
Lubomila Jordanova 19:14
All the time. If you asked my team I have been so many times in tears because of success or because of some situation that maybe didn't feel right or some conflict that I have seen maybe outside of the boundaries of the company, but I really take to heart any of these moments when there is injustice and also there's some sort of behaviour that might have been skipped or situation that could have been avoided.
Lubomila Jordanova 19:50
Many I can think of how proud I felt when we had our few key employees that just got confirmed. And they're going to be starting in the coming months. And some of them come from the biggest companies in the world, they're literally taking a massive paycheck cut.
Lubomila Jordanova 20:12
But also, they're really going for something that is in a value based way, defining the future, and they feel a lot more aligned to it. But just these kinds of moments, shaping the fate of the company.
Lubomila Jordanova 20:27
And I always get really emotional because I know that it is not the reality that we had four or five years ago, it is not the reality we even had like a year ago, where we can now confidently go out and get these people and move on to the next big thing.
Risto Kuulasmaa 20:45
And what does it mean to you to work for a cause bigger than yourself.
Lubomila Jordanova 20:51
From today's perspective, it feels like it's the only way I don't think I would be ever be able to simply work for the sake of work. Plan A and the activities of our work really penetrate my day to day, but also my time off and not in a way that I'm stressed about work. But more, I come up with ideas within my free time, I also have a lot of friends that are from the realm of green technology that also part of my personal kind of group.
Lubomila Jordanova 21:22
And it just is so exciting to be working on something that feels and is so important. Because you know that your skills, your time, your effort, are not going to waste and they're going towards something that is fundamentally shaping a whole generation but also the ones that come after.
Lubomila Jordanova 21:45
And it just excites me always to see how people change after they've interacted with us after they started working with us and to see these milestones of our clients as well, because that shows that you know, it's working.
Lubomila Jordanova 22:03
On a more qualitative level, after giving all the speeches that I've given, I've now received hundreds of messages where people would tell me that they've decided to focus their work on sustainability within the existing company or quit their job and move into sustainability or kick off something on the side that is related to the topic.
Lubomila Jordanova 22:24
On a more quantitative level, we by now have been able to reduce on average by seven to 9% the emissions of our clients.
Lubomila Jordanova 22:32
And that is the result of them understanding the value of taking action. Rather than simply doing an assessment and preparing a report.
Lubomila Jordanova 22:40
We have been pushing a lot of these changes through the product, but also through a deep understanding that this fundamental shift that businesses need to go through needs to be broken down into steps and it needs to involve all the different stakeholders within an organisation. These two sides of the story, the qualitative and the quantitative, constantly reappearing on daily basis within our reality. And that's I think, what keeps the whole team going forward?
Risto Kuulasmaa 23:12
And what does success mean to you?
Lubomila Jordanova 23:15
In our domain, it's a bit of a difficult one. I think success is unachievable in a way, because you have to be able to tackle the big issue that is climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 23:28
And I don't think we would be at any point fully successful, because that would mean that we would see all of the negative impacts of of climate change, essentially stopping. On a more practical level, I do take the chance for every little wind that we have, be it by new company signing up with us, be it by a new employee joining, be it by just us having milestone with the product to be celebrated.
Lubomila Jordanova 24:00
We have a lot of these many "aha" moments, a lot of moments where people's work needs to be recognised and needs to be celebrated. And these are for me successes, they go outside of me, they're not about me, they're about the team. They're about the client success. They're about really seeing the progress on the larger story where the true success is going to be. But let's see, we chatted a few years to see if we're getting any close.
Risto Kuulasmaa 24:32
And what about on the personal side? What is a successful life, what it means to you?
Lubomila Jordanova 24:39
I think finding balance has been a big success for me.
Lubomila Jordanova 24:43
It was not something I've valued, but because I had not yet touched it to know that it would make me so different as a person.
Lubomila Jordanova 24:53
I've become so much more calm and so much more mature and capable of going through all sorts of situations good, bad, challenging or not, with a level headed mind and a lot of calmness and a lot of positivity.
Lubomila Jordanova 25:11
Another success has been really to spend time on finding out what I love to do outside of Plan A. It's really difficult when you're building something that you care about so much to actually focus on finding your hobbies and new exciting activities that are not work because it's just already so exciting to be working on Plan A.
Lubomila Jordanova 25:32
And in the last few months, I've spent conscious time on figuring this out. And it has really made me a lot more fulfilled and a bit more curious about things and maybe a bit particular,
Risto Kuulasmaa 25:44
What would have been those, like examples of, of the past few months where you be more connected, and you have, kind of unlocked those personal space things?
Lubomila Jordanova 26:01
So there's been three key elements, one has been sports, and that's where I get so much energy and so much excitement by moving my body, as soon as I wake up or after a long day.
Lubomila Jordanova 26:16
That probably sounds quite trivial. But once you start implementing it on daily basis, it makes a massive difference.
Lubomila Jordanova 26:23
The second one has been painting, I don't think I have a really good style. But I definitely think that it is a really interesting stress release and quite funny. Like, if I can show you some of my creations, I don't think they're going in any gallery. But at least it shows that there's a lot of energy that needed to come out in one way or another.
Lubomila Jordanova 26:43
And the final one has been making my own cosmetics, I'm not selling anything, obviously, it's just for my own purpose, but finding how to use like different oils and different products and so on and making them into something and then you put on your skin it it's quite mind blowing, because it's really effective.
Lubomila Jordanova 27:03
And it's you feel like a bit like a chemist because you're putting together stuff and it needs to be the right proportion. And you put little labels, whether it was like a bit of a pharmacy from the old days, kind of.
Risto Kuulasmaa 27:15
Nice. And what comes out when you when you paint?
Lubomila Jordanova 27:21
There's a lot of colour. There's a lot of non worldly visuals, there's the last one that I did was I called these trees that were coming from all sides of the paper.
Lubomila Jordanova 27:33
So they were not necessarily on the floor, but they were like from the sky.
Lubomila Jordanova 27:36
And I don't even know what was going on there.
Lubomila Jordanova 27:40
Though there's been a lot of Pollock kind of vibe, as well. So yeah, I guess I have endless amounts of energy. And that's another demonstration that it needs to come out in one way or another.
Risto Kuulasmaa 27:55
And you had a collaboration with Obama Foundation, how was that?
Lubomila Jordanova 28:02
Well, it was more of an honour rather than a collaboration because they selected 30 people from Europe as Obama leaders, which signified the commitment that we've all made to a different social cause, mine of course, was climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 28:19
And I was one of the few for profit intrapreneurs within the group, many of the other people where, are activists, young politicians, people with commitment to issues like climate change, we're working on them from a different angle.
Lubomila Jordanova 28:36
It was absolutely fantastic.
Lubomila Jordanova 28:37
And I think he was an incredible blessing coming at a very particular time for planning, because being a founder is not the same as being a CEO. And this transition can also go quite badly. If not managed well.
Lubomila Jordanova 28:52
I've had the benefit of having mentors down the line. But that was a six month course that was every single week taking us two to four hours of leadership classes that were very practical, but also quite inspirational.
Lubomila Jordanova 29:06
We met a lot of people, including President Obama, like the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and also some of the advisors of the Obama administration when that was kind of the setup in the White House.
Lubomila Jordanova 29:23
And that gave to all of us a lot of context of how being a leader quite often carries the same kinds of challenges. Regardless if you're working in the rearm of activism, politics, enterpreneurship business, it's always about how do you manage your emotions? How do you manage your stress, vulnerability?
Lubomila Jordanova 29:47
How do you create space for yourself by making sure that you're not to, to commit it to others without being committed to yourself?
Lubomila Jordanova 29:55
And it also gave us a really good confrontation with the reality that there is no case where any of these causes and any of the social issues that all of us were working on, is ever going to be addressed if there is no true understanding of the importance of every single one of the stakeholders and the collaboration between them.
Lubomila Jordanova 30:17
And that was, for me a big revelation because I have been working for now, five, six years on supporting businesses to transform. Always had a lot of respect to science, always with a lot of respect to any other perspective. But always shying away from thinking like, that maybe politics needs to also be part of the conversation or activists also should be part of the conversation because that always seemed to politicise the engagement with businesses.
Lubomila Jordanova 30:47
I still think there's a fine line that you need to manage and to make sure that there is an unbiased approach to supporting businesses. But listening in and understanding how these stakeholders thinks also helps you navigate reality a lot better.
Risto Kuulasmaa 31:00
Did you have a chance to spend some personal time with President Obama?
Lubomila Jordanova 31:06
Yeah, I was incredibly lucky also to be one of the first people that he approached when we had our meeting with him in Copenhagen.
Lubomila Jordanova 31:18
So how it happened was, first of all, we had one Zoom session with him, where we met him for one hour.
Lubomila Jordanova 31:24
But then two weeks later, three weeks later, we were able to meet him in person for two and a half days, which is quite significant.
Lubomila Jordanova 31:32
The first engagement was at an evening cocktail. That was a more informal part where he told me that I have a great voice.
Lubomila Jordanova 31:39
And on the next day, I was one of the people presenting to him about the role of greenwashing. And what are the challenges related to communication around climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 31:53
And we also had 10 person roundtable where we could exchange for half an hour. So quite a few small pockets of excitement with him.
Lubomila Jordanova 32:04
And certainly a fantastic opportunity to see how much of an honest and also authentic leader he is. He was exactly as we've seen him in any of his online engagements in any of his offline engagements, he is committed, he talks about values, he doesn't go into the day to day, he really thinks of the transformation that our society needs to go through.
Risto Kuulasmaa 32:35
Hmm. So inspiring moment.
Lubomila Jordanova 32:38
Absolutely. Yeah, maybe probably one of the most inspiring I remember thinking to myself, the moment when the event was finished, how grateful I am for this rocket launch button that was clicked for me and how there's nothing that I should allow myself to limit me going forward for Plan A, because there's no need to make excuses that we've been able to accomplish something. As long as you don't do it with ego, you're humble, you stay committed, then there's no wrong way in doing it.
Risto Kuulasmaa 33:13
What is the most significant professional trauma? And what did you learn from it?
Lubomila Jordanova 33:21
We had one case when someone left the company at a stage when we were fairly few, because they were burned out.
Lubomila Jordanova 33:30
And that was something that I hadn't even noticed. And I felt like, I had failed as a leader when that resignation came in.
Lubomila Jordanova 33:42
After that, I really had a reckoning, it took a long time to process it, and also spoke to a lot of people that had gone through a similar situation, or had at least, been signalled by the employees that maybe there was a boundary that had been crossed.
Lubomila Jordanova 33:57
And what this has led to today is that I have a very clear view of all the different steps that I need to take in order to distance myself from my emotions, but also from you know, assuming that someone is the same as me, because I now know myself and I know how to recognise others by being themselves and that has helped me really not get into any of these situations ever since.
Lubomila Jordanova 34:29
But that was definitely quite traumatic, because it really felt like I had failed and I don't believe in the concept of failure because I think everything is a learning but it really felt exhausting to think of having gone through this not for myself, but for this person that had been thinking about this for a long time committed to the cause, but then it was like too much so they left.
Risto Kuulasmaa 34:49
There is a lot of self blaming.
Lubomila Jordanova 34:52
Yeah, in a way it felt like I skipped listening to some lessons that I should have from all the books that I had read and also from all the conversations I had had, but that was many years ago.
Lubomila Jordanova 35:04
And now I feel like this is a case, which has helped shape a culture, which is really respecting people's boundaries, patterns, rituals, ways of doing things. That is, I would say, a lot more mature than maybe at the time when this event happened.
Risto Kuulasmaa 35:26
What would be the kind of key learning for a startup founder who has the risk to encounter similar circumstances, what would be your kind of mentoring?
Lubomila Jordanova 35:42
The fact that you have a lot of skin in the game doesn't mean that others have because
Lubomila Jordanova 35:47
A, they're not the co founder
Lubomila Jordanova 35:49
B, they're not also the ones that came up with the idea that created this company that has pushed you on daily basis to be going forward with this.
Lubomila Jordanova 35:59
And when you process this, when you understand this, you figure out that people have boundaries, people also have the necessity to be allowed to define their own day to day and also maybe even their workload, the more professional, they are down the line because they worked in many places, the more they know actually what it takes for them to get something done.
Lubomila Jordanova 36:26
And probably the final and key learning is really open communication, because this case could have been avoided if there was an environment where this person felt comfortable to say early on that they felt like this was too much, rather than just offering their resignation.
Lubomila Jordanova 36:45
And by opening up the conversation already, when the company's like 2-3-4 people about how do you feel? Has this been a tough, tough week? Has this been a good one bad one? What could we have done to make it better, you actually end up probably securing that these people are going to become advocates for you once there's a challenging situation, maybe with another person that is not caused by the same thing. But even if it's something else, because they know that you have the feelings and the success and the kind of mindfulness and stable mind, in the back of your mind, is something they need to read that you're responsible for.
Risto Kuulasmaa 37:31
Why it's so hard to spot those cases, what do you think?
Lubomila Jordanova 37:38
And honestly, in the case that I'm thinking of it was me being immature and finding business and also probably expecting from others what I was expecting for myself, I think it was, it's a matter of that, like if you were to, if you're too, unclear on where you headed, and you may be trying to figure out so many things at the same time, you maybe just don't have the attention span to notice these things.
Lubomila Jordanova 38:10
But you need to consciously develop the time and spend the effort to be able to recognise them, because otherwise you miss the opportunity to be getting these people through all these challenging steps that building a company includes because the smaller the company is, the quicker the shift cycles. So that I think, helps.
Risto Kuulasmaa 38:35
And what is your advice to young founders striving for perfection in your industry?
Lubomila Jordanova 38:44
Give up already.
Lubomila Jordanova 38:47
I think striving for perfection is not a good idea. Because you're never going to be able to achieve it. When you say you strive for perfection. That means that you have a template in your mind of what the outcome should be.
Lubomila Jordanova 38:57
And the outcome is never like that it actually could be better.
Lubomila Jordanova 39:01
But because you have a template already defined in what should happen, you end up limiting the opportunities for this to really be a positive surprise of how it was even better than that.
Lubomila Jordanova 39:16
I allow myself to have perfection when it comes to for example design and little things like slides and so on. And that's the way I filter out and I channel my energy and need for having something that is perfect because that's the kind of place where you can control that.
Lubomila Jordanova 39:34
You can see perfection in beautifully designed slide, you can see perfection in a beautifully designed poster. But this is where perfection seeking finishes. I think. Now I've learned to love being surprised by an outcome because as long as you know the building blocks of what success in your context should be like then you should allow for this to come out in the way the external forces are going to shape it as well, because that's probably the best outcome and is the best outcome that you can get in any case,
Risto Kuulasmaa 40:11
What have you forgiven for yourself?
Lubomila Jordanova 40:18
I definitely had the need to work really hard all the time and kill myself and be exhausted. And that's something that came probably to the experiences that I had in my previous jobs before Plan A.
Lubomila Jordanova 40:34
I keep on working six days a week, I keep on working until late. But now I've started listening to my body and also to my mind, and when I see that what's coming out is taking me five more minutes than what it usually does, I just shut off the computer. And I leave. Because I know that I can be really efficient with my time and I don't like to waste my time.
Lubomila Jordanova 40:52
So I forgive myself this need to make the hours rather than to make the quality. Now I'm only seeking quality with anything that I touch.
Lubomila Jordanova 41:02
And what this means is that some days are longer, some days are shorter. But it means that at the end of each day, I can in incredibly satisfied manner, just close off and leave the office and immediately switch off. Because I know that I've done my best.
Risto Kuulasmaa 41:20
And what's your relationship with sacrifices?
Lubomila Jordanova 41:26
I'm a goal driven person. So I think I've sacrificed a lot. But I don't think sacrifice is something that needs to be negative, it's more a substitute. It's something that is the choice that you've made in effort to select what you prioritise.
Lubomila Jordanova 41:51
I think sacrifice is with the connotation of what probably religion has taught us of being there to demonstrate our suffering and commitment to, to the gods and so on. That probably is a bit of an outlandish concept, for me, I actually believe that. There's good times for all sorts of things in life. And you need to know how to prioritise well.
Lubomila Jordanova 42:17
And for me, one commitment that I've made is at the moment Plan A is definitely my big priority. And I skip going to parties, because I know I need to go at 8am on the next day to have a very important meeting or because I really need these five hours in the morning to prepare something. But that doesn't feel like a sacrifice. It's more I know what I find to be important in my life.
Risto Kuulasmaa 42:42
And how about those kind of personal internal sacrifices. Have you encountered them?
Lubomila Jordanova 42:50
And one of the concepts I've always had a battle with is this whole idea of work life balance, because at the get go, there's a wrong connotation, because all of a sudden, like life does not include work.
Lubomila Jordanova 43:01
And work is an equivalent size of a concept of life.
Lubomila Jordanova 43:06
And I think if you look at that perspective, I feel like probably the first few years of Plan A, I had to focus a lot more on work. Now I've learned to balance myself to find the ways in which I get balanced and to spend time on them to recuperate, to be energised, rejuvenated again.
Lubomila Jordanova 43:30
And that has led to kind of shifting my attention from one topic to the other quicker.
Lubomila Jordanova 43:39
I think at different points in people's lives, there's different topics that lead the way and one needs to recognise what matters at that point. I don't think extraordinary results come by trying to find balance in everything that you do, because you're just going to be probably average good at everything.
Lubomila Jordanova 44:00
It's not about being able to master 300 sports and it really is about the one thing that you have found that you appreciate that you want to be good at that you spend maybe more time on, which immediately removes balance because you're spending more time on it.
Lubomila Jordanova 44:16
And then finding your way in keeping yourself sane, keeping yourself sociable, I think it's really important to connect to family to partners to whatever you like to do to friends, whatever drives you on that personal front. But knowing that the better results come from this unbalanced relationship you have with one particular activity and for me, this is Plan A.
Risto Kuulasmaa 44:45
They're saying that we should work smart in instead of hard? but is it really possible to attain success without working hard?
Lubomila Jordanova 45:00
I don't think there's one way of doing anything in life. And I think the phenomenal successes of people that maybe became the most famous sports people without having legs or the people that phenomenal musicians, without being able to see and to look at notes is a demonstration that there is no one way of doing a good and fantastic and phenomenal and inspiring work within a certain domain.
Lubomila Jordanova 45:34
I do think that being ..., being committed to something is always going to push you a little bit to be extra excited about it, which might lead to the additional hours, there is the concept of the 10,000 hours by Malcolm Gladwell.
Lubomila Jordanova 45:51
And there's also other concepts related to the principle of the three, where you have three parts, essentially, the definition of success, the one is that 1/3 of the time, you're always going to be achieving extraordinary results, the second part of the time, you will be doing average.
Lubomila Jordanova 46:12
And then you also need to accept that the third part of the time are always going to be underachieving.
Lubomila Jordanova 46:18
There's a lot of ways in which you can look at this, I think the most important is and that's the fundamental first step before you start claiming fame for anything is learning yourself and learning about yourself and spending time to connect the dots between the different circumstances in which you've lived and you've been to understand the true driving force that is within you. It comes from where you come from, it comes from your family, it comes from the circumstances in which you've been brought up and all these different dots that to pays for you where you headed.
Lubomila Jordanova 46:53
As long as you know that you also are going to know how you work and what brings you success.
Risto Kuulasmaa 46:59
Now you see your personal future, where you are in five years?
Lubomila Jordanova 47:08
I am now happy and I think in five years time, I'm also going to be happy.
Lubomila Jordanova 47:13
There's a lot of building blocks that contribute to this happiness today. And I think they're just going to continue evolving on a personal on a professional level.
Lubomila Jordanova 47:22
But ultimately, I think now I've gotten to a stage where I know myself, I know the the kind of nice person that I am, I know my vulnerabilities, I know what is emotionally triggering me.
Lubomila Jordanova 47:36
And with this knowledge I'm equipped to navigate life in, I would say quite of a calm, peaceful and positive way.
Lubomila Jordanova 47:44
I feel incredibly honoured to be working on what I'm working and to be able to share with people knowledge to see how inspired they are by the day to day activities that we have within Plan A within the green tech Alliance.
Lubomila Jordanova 47:56
So in five years time, this is just going to be amplified further. And I think we would be connecting the dots on the world level rather than on a European like we're doing today.
Risto Kuulasmaa 48:05
What are you fighting for?
Lubomila Jordanova 48:08
I have stopped fighting.
Lubomila Jordanova 48:13
We used to say all the time in the beginning of Plan A.
Lubomila Jordanova 48:18
Plan A in the fight against climate change.
Lubomila Jordanova 48:20
I think fighting has a negative connotation, it's a bit too much of a word that maybe creates a bit of a energy that starts bubbling and doesn't make anyone feel immediately connected.
Lubomila Jordanova 48:38
I think what I wished for is really seeing people happy.
Lubomila Jordanova 48:44
I know this is quite maybe corny and a little bit unrelated to the day to day activities that we have. But it kind of is because if you start seeing yourself as part of the bigger picture, be it as an entity as a business, be it as an individual, you all of a sudden start benefiting from the energy of others because you can connect to them better you can be more aligned to their outcomes and then again, you gain efficiency you gain trust you gain prosperity in a more effective manner.
Risto Kuulasmaa 49:23
Beautiful. Thank you for joining the Talks of Imperfection.
Lubomila Jordanova 49:28
Thank you for having me know is a big pleasure to speak to you.
Risto Kuulasmaa 49:32
Likewise. Thank you.
Risto Kuulasmaa 49:39
Thank you for listening to the Talks of Imperfection.
Risto Kuulasmaa 49:43
The podcast is enabled by Edita Prima, the kindest Nordic tech company that orchestrates automated customer journeys to perfection by turning data friendly.
Risto Kuulasmaa 49:55
That's all folks. It was good to have you on board, please subscribe to the podcast. follow us on Instagram and hold tight until the next episode.
